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LOU LEVY PUBLISHERS ROUND TABLE 1998

Part 3: Tending the Stable

JA: How many different writers do you have at a time?

Antony Bland: Full-time, totally hands-on, maybe 12. Beyond that, there's the other couple hundred writers on Chrysalis worldwide -- like, I don't need to do much for Portishead, but I work much more closely with unsigned bands such as this Swedish drum-and-bass band called Baxter (now signed to Maverick). So there's about a dozen taking up the 40-50% of my time that I allot just to my writers.

BG: Five or six full-time, and maybe 12 peripherally -- that every two weeks or so I'll speak with on the phone and discuss things or have activity with.

LL: Are you as responsible for the peripherals?

BG: I'm in kind of a unique situation in that I haven't signed anyone yet. I've been focusing on working on our overall roster, and whoever writes the best songs is who I give my attention to, internationally as well.

LL: And the results are what you are judged on?

BG: Yes.

BJP: I deal with about 15 writers on a hands-on, every day basis. Then there's another five to ten who were already there that I handle as well, but 15 day-to-day, hearing songs, going to the studio, traveling.

LL: Do you see that number growing?

BJP: If I love the songs, we're on! But I don't like to stockpile. You could bring me some songs and they'd be cool, but I've already got songs like that. When I bring something in, it's got to be something I don't really have, or something to enhance what I have.

Leeds Levy: When I was at MCA, we would start with five and get up to ten, but a number of the writers or writer/artists or writer/producers would get on automatic pilot -- they're launched, they've left the nest, see you at the ASCAP awards! And that's cool -- they've kind of graduated.

BJP: Yeah, Warryn Campbell is getting a lot of work now, and I said, "Okay, I need a new baby to groom!" And that's when Tamara came along: perfect timing, only she took off quicker than I thought!

BV: My number slides between 12 and 20. But I agree with you, when they're out of the nest it becomes more maintenance, and not the bust-ass-every-day to get them in the door. I've got one guy who's on auto-pilot right now who's got so much lined up that he's not available to me.

LL: I've heard that Rondor works in a unique way: that there's a pool of writers and you're encouraged to work with all of them, as opposed to being assigned these five or 15 writers, and that's your roster.

BV: We have "writer assignments" so that a writer has a particular person to go to with a problem -- if it's not set up like that, writers can get five people in your company doing the same thing. But yes, everyone can work with everyone; it's not that protective, guarded thing. If I sign a writer, I don't want to be the only one working on him, I want the film people working with him and everyone else. I don't need them going through me, they can call him themselves, and at weekly meetings everyone knows where everyone is. And Rondor doesn't have the turnaround that larger companies have, so it's really more of a... not to be corny, but a family feeling there. [Owners] Herb [Alpert] and Jerry [Moss] are in the building every day, around and available, and they have a way of extracting incredible loyalty from their employees.

LL: John, how is it different working in R&B?

BJP: Right now R&B is a producer-driven market, and the producers are writing the songs, so they don't have to go to anyone else. If they need a big hit they'll go to Diane Warren or someone like that, and do the rest themselves. Jermaine Dupri, Dallas Austin, Puff Daddy, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, Organized Noize, R. Kelly -- all writer/producers. As for collaborations, they only happen if a both writers want it to happen -- the big writer might say, you either want my song or you don't, because if you won't use it, someone else will. On the other hand, no up-and-coming young kid wants to be told what to do.

LL: I saw this happen with David Foster, he'd co-write with someone, Lionel Richie or Madonna, and say "Check out this chord progression, I've studied your music, this is an area you haven't visited, let me expand your vocabulary and together we'll take your music to a new place."

Big John Platt: I like my writers to work with a full spectrum of writers, not just urban. You need to show them that there's a whole world out there. They just want to go platinum here; sometimes they don't even know that your record can sell overseas, that you can have the same song that's a hit here working with somebody else in France that's not going to affect the version here -- it's free money! Same thing with getting songs in movies. Executives have to have broadviews; you've got to use all of the company's resources, and pass a tape on to someone else if it's not your field.

AB: I can't really speak from the writers' side, but we've tried to hook up groups, like once we tried to hook up Outkast and Leftfield -- a great hip hop group with a techno-based outfit. That didn't work, but things like that can open up a different audience. And it's not calculated for sales or spreading popularity, I think they just like the music.

LL: Yeah, you have to put the artists together in a social situation and hope there's a chemistry -- throw a rock writer with a country writer or whatever and just see what happens.

BJP: EMI does a thing every year where they send these writers from each genre off to some castle in France.

LL: Actually, that was [Sting's longtime manager] Miles Copeland's brainchild. It took a non-publisher to come up with that idea, which I think is a very clever way of creating something out of virtually nothing.

Barbara Vander Linde: It was a brilliant idea. Miles' true goal is to justify keeping that castle (laughter), and it's also something he does to get great collaborations for his writers. It's 24 writers for eight days, with two days off. They write and record a song a day in groups of three, we rotate them every day so theoretically they work with everyone who's there, but that doesn't usually happen. Originally, there were six writers from Bugle, six from Rondor, and then we hand-picked 12 others. I would try to have eight artists who were going to record in the not too distant future so there would be some kind of natural outlet for the songs they wrote. And the other four slots would be writers like Carole King, or a big Nashville writer, or interesting international artists. Some great relationships came out of it, and it's wonderful to actually see the songs evolve and come to life.

JA: Did any hits come out of it?

BV: Absolutely -- a song I placed on Celine Dion's album was written there. And a #1 country record with Aaron Tippin, Tal Bachman came, Swirl. It can get spread too thin -- like Swirl wrote six songs but only recorded one -- but you get some really interesting combinations, and the ones you think will never work are the ones that do.

Part 4: Where To Be Found

JA: Where do you find or look for writers?

BV: Through writers that I have signed or I know. I have never found anything through the mail, although I know people who have.

BJP: I've found a couple of interesting things in the mail -- although 98% of what I get isn't quite there yet.

JA: How much of your unsolicited material do you listen to?

BJP: All of it -- you just never know. My assistant and I have a system -- they all get logged with a phone number, the date it came in, a space for my comments, all that.

Antony Bland: The first band I ever signed I got in the mail, actually. They're still with us -- a band called The Picture House who does well in Europe and may be on the verge of getting a deal here. Something else came in through a consultant, another through hearing a song on a compilation -- "He's a co-writer, I like this" -- then Scout, a band from from New York, came through both an Arista A&R guy and a scout of ours in New York. I listen to everything that comes in. Most of it isn't what I'm looking for, and not because it's not good -- I hear so many good female singer/songwriters, but I've got like ten that I'm trying to find deals for.

BJP: I always have a fear of not listening to a tape, and three years later the writer's a huge success.

JA: What are some ways a writer can get onto your radar?

BJP: For me it's relationships: attorneys, managers, the writers I have now. They see what you're doing for the writers they brought you before, and they start shooting people your way. Now, most of them just come my way, or I'll be listening to an album and a song by a new writer stands out.

LL: I once saw David Sanborn opening for someone, and his bass player was unbelievable. I just had a feeling that he wrote songs, and it turned out to be [jazz/urban great] Marcus Miller. That's something that my father told me a long time ago: to keep an eye out for band members, particularly keyboard players. Usually they write arrangements or are the musical director and have a good melodic sense and probably write songs: like Barry Manilow was Bette Midler's musical director.

JA: Ben, do you get a lot of tips from other BMG companies? Arista, RCA?

BG: Yes, I really do. One thing that connects it is, we're all on the same e-mail system, so that makes it really easy -- type in a few letters and the person's name pops right up.

JA: It's amazing how something that simple can make all the difference.

BG: It really does. There's a very strong synergy between the companies.

LL: There's a guy at one of the big film studios who never returns phone calls but responds to e-mail.

AB: If someone at RCA signs a band, do they automatically bring it to BMG Publishing?

Benjamin Groff: Oh yeah, they're right downstairs. We talk all the time.

LL (to BJP): Do Capitol and Virgin do that for you?

BJP: We know pretty much what they're doing, they stay in contact with us and [EMI CEO] Marty [Bandier] tells us things all the time. We don't get internal memos or anything, but I'll get a note or find out from someone in the company.

AB: I hear A&R people say all the time that they find bands on the net. Do any of you? I just wonder if they're making it up, because I never have time to plow through every band on IUMA or whatever.

ALL: No.

JA: It's all very much in its infancy. Web sound is terrible for most people, and there's usually only a 30-second clip -- I think that has prevented it from being utilized as much as it will be very soon.

LL: There are a lot of less traditional methods you can use to promote your writers. We made a co-publishing deal with an independent film company where we would be involved not only in selecting songs for the film, but also have some of our writers work with the guy writing the score, which can really open up the portfolio of our writer: now he has credentials in other genres. We did that a lot when I was at MCA because obviously it's tied to Universal Pictures and Universal Television. We would also do loan-out agreements to broaden a writer's accomplishments -- loan the writer out to another studio to write the music for a series. Even though you don't own the publishing, you still participate in the royalties, and you're furthering that writer's career.

We have another writer who tours with a lot of artists as a musician: he may end up writing with those artists or he may not, but that's another way of promoting a writer who is also an amazing guitar player.

We also do samplers. Recently we did a CD-Rom of Paul Anka's catalog geared for film&TV and commercial production companies, because that's a way to get them all of the songs in a way that makes them easy to find. It's very user-friendly and also ties into our web site. EMI also has a new system, and BMG has a very sophisticated search engine for their catalog as well.

JA: Warner/Chappell's web site has something like 40,000 sound clips.

Part 5: The Rap Sheets

Jem Aswad: Can we go around the room and have each of you tell a little bit about yourselves and who your writers are?

BJP: I'm from Colorado, I was a club DJ in Denver. I started reading books on the industry -- Hit Men, All You Need To Know About The Music Business, The Death Of Rhythm & Blues. What would The Death Of Rhythm & Blues tell me about music publishing? I just feel you've gotta know where music came from to know where it's going. Then I came out here and started managing producers, both of whom had publishing deals with EMI: one of which I secured -- Madukey Productions -- and the other, Kiyamma McGriffin, was already signed to EMI. When the guy who signed him left EMI for Warner Bros. in '95, he helped me get the job.

My main writers are Tamara Savage, Warryn Campbell, Mike Mosely -- who's got an artist on Epic now. TQ -- he worked on 2Pac and E40 -- and I also handle Jay Z and Usher. I handle Jermaine Dupri with [EMI exec] Jody [Gerson], 2Pac, Lost Boyz, Mo Thugs, Krazie Bone from Bone Thugs N' Harmony, this guy named Mix-O who did the KP&Envy record "Swing My Way." And others! Some of the songs I had a part in acquiring were "Waterfalls" for TLC, Monica's "Don't Take It Personally," and I've got a song on each of their new albums.

Barbara Vander Linde: I had a friend who was working at A&M Records and I started temping there. I temped for three weeks and was offered three jobs: publicity, sales & marketing, and publishing, and I chose publishing. Tom Vickers hired me, that's when Rondor was still Almo/Irving and still with A&M, and I worked for him for about ten days before he left to go to Capitol -- damn! I chose the wrong job! But they kept me, and I stayed for two years and worked in business affairs, and then film & television. Then I met Linda Blum and Marla McNally who were starting a new company called Emerald Forest, and they hired me to plug songs -- I'd never plugged songs before -- and I worked there for two years. It was hard to be song plugger a in a small company with no catalog, but it was an excellent, excellent education. Then I met Ronnie Vance and he hired me at Geffen Music, and I loved that -- we had more catalog, more writers, and I worked with him for six months. When I went to Geffen they had already been sold to MCA, and after six months they started to eliminate the overlapping departments, so we were all very unceremoniously fired.

After that experience, I didn't ever want to lose my job because of a merger or a buyout or anything. I wanted to go back to Rondor because I knew and loved the catalog already: we've got the East Memphis catalog -- Al Green and Otis Redding and the Staple Singers -- as well as the Beach Boys and the Carpenters. I've been there now for six years, and was promoted to general manager a year ago January, and it's my home.

My main writers are Will Jennings, a young writer/producer who's starting to blow up named Greg Wells -- he had an Aerosmith record, he co-wrote my Celine Dion song "The Reason," he's co-written and producing the new Crash Test Dummies record. I have Mark Mueller, who wrote "That's What Love Is For" for Amy Grant, and Jennifer Paige's "Crush." We also publish Blues Traveler, Melissa Etheridge, and Garbage.

Benjamin Groff: I went to Berklee School of Music in Boston, majoring in performance and songwriting -- studying, writing and playing as much music as possible. When I graduated, I moved to New York and figured I'd work in a publishing company during the day and be a musician at night. I was hired by a wonderful woman named Molly Kaye at Almo/Irving, doing tape copying there, just getting my taste for publishing. From there I worked at PolyGram Music for Holly Greene, doing a little song-plugging. Meanwhile, Molly Kaye, who had moved to BMG in LA, offered me a job as a song plugger. So I moved out here blindly, and I've been at BMG for two years and a few months. I really into this because of my love of songs, and the more time I spend in publishing, the more I realize I'll be doing this for the rest of my life. My main writers are these great songcrafters from Vancouver named Sean Hosein and Dane Deviller, they had their first hit last year with "Invisible Man" by 98 Degrees and other cuts on Amy Grant, All-4-One, etc. I also work with Dave Stewart, formerly of Eurythmics, Ashley Ingram (co-wrote "You Gotta Be" for Des'ree), Manuel Seal who co-wrote the last three Usher hits, Phil Thornalley, Jim Brickman, Stephen Bishop, Charlotte Caffey (formerly of the Go-Gos), Teron Beal, Jeff Pescetto, Rashad Coes and even some great current writers that have tremendous catalogs, like the Gibb Brothers [aka the Bee Gees], John Hiatt, Tommy Sims, etc.

LL: What about Natalie Imbruglia?

JA: "Torn" was actually written by Phil Thornalley --

BV: With Ann Previn and Scott Cutler. And that song is seven years old, which just goes to show that a good song is a good song and it will eventually find its way. Ann's original demo was pretty much like Natalie's version.

Antony Bland: I worked in a chicken factory! Then I interned for Chrysalis in London in '91, then interned for them over here, tape room, mail room, reception, then finally started doing song-plugging, and I was probably the worst song-plugger in history: I got like four songs covered in a year-and-a-half, a couple of really dodgy ones, too! I signed one writer in that time who we actually picked up an award for the other night, Stacy Piersa, who did well toward the end of her time at Chrysalis. Then I moved into International, because there was always a problem between us and the English office, and that's basically it. My main writers over here are a guy named Craig Kafton -- it was a team effort, he's been developing this artist named Reiss who put out a single on Mercury --

BV: [starts singing song]

AB: Well! That's good to hear! John Lowery, who's now with Marilyn Manson and also recently wrote LPs with Two (on Nothing Records) and David Lee Roth. Scout, from New York, who are my most precious developing band. And the UK and international writers I get involved with depending on how much help they need -- like I'm helping Baxter to find distribution for their independent label that they have on the side. I love working with international and developing acts.

Leeds Levy: I've got a question for you guys, because my experience in the business is slightly different in that I grew up in it -- I was named after a music publishing company! My father [Leeds Music founder Lou Levy, after whom this Round Table is named] started with a couple of guys named Sammy Cohn -- who changed his name to Sammy Cahn -- and Saul Kaplan -- changed his name to Saul Chaplin -- and during the Great Depression, they were all poor kids from the Lower East Side. His idea was to innovate and sell and market songs, and I am very fortunate to have been subconsciously or subliminally being taught a lot about the business.

I started working for ASCAP in the mid-'70s, collecting license fees in Brooklyn and Staten Island -- talk about street-level, trying to collect money from a bar-owner at 4AM in Brooklyn! Then I joined the membership department, then a guy who had worked for my father introduced me to the Elton John gang. I established their American music publishing operations -- and boy, it's a lot easier to get your phone calls returned when you say you're from the Elton John organization! Then I worked at MCA, then eventually had my own firm, and I've been with Chrysalis for two years.

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5
Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9

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